Comments on: Newsflash for Michael Schiavo http://tammybruce.com/2006/07/newsflash_for_michael_schiavo.html Independent. Conservative. Unruly. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:29:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Vlad http://tammybruce.com/2006/07/newsflash_for_michael_schiavo.html#comment-107868 Vlad Fri, 07 Jul 2006 00:22:00 +0000 http://tammybruce.com/2006/07/newsflash-for-michael-schiavo.php#comment-107868 <p>OK, so a guy with a really bad brain injury miraculously recovered after spending 20 years in a semi-vegetative state on a hospital bed, with all kinds of high-tech gear hooked up to him? Well, good for him. (I guess. I'm not in his shoes and, obviously, wouldn't wanna be.) I understand, Tammy, that for you and some of your commenters this proves that taking Terri Schiavo out of her vegetative state and allowing her to die was murder - after all, if this guy recovered, why couldn't she? If not after twenty, then maybe 50, maybe 120 years? <br /> Let's set aside the difference in the extent of brain damage in both cases, and ask these questions instead: <br /> How much did it cost to keep this guy alive for twenty years, and who paid for it? If the money came from his savings, or his family, I'm perfectly fine with that. They can keep him in the hospital for another 20 years, for what I care. In a private room, with a view of the ocean. However, if the money came from insurance or from the government (read: taxes), then I have a problem with it. Healthcare is neither free nor an infinite resource. If insurance or taxes paid for it, then we all paid for it, without being asked to. Let's imagine, for a second, that a lot of people get inspired by this story and demand, in their living wills, to be kept alive for however long it takes. Let's further assume, that a law is passed (which you would undoubtedly support) banning anybody from disconnecting life support from a patient, no matter how hopeless his case. (Remember Terry Wallis? His case seemed hopeless, too.)<br /> Even with today's technology we are able to keep people alive for a very long time. Her heart failed? No problem, hook her up to this machine! His lungs no longer work? No problem, plug him in here! Brain dead? Oh, that's a piece o' cake - this apparatus over there will keep him alive forever. Most of these people will never recover. Our hospitals will turn into some bizarre version of "Matrix", with rows and rows of unconscious, "almost dead" bodies being kept alive decade after decade with sophisticated machinery. Nobody will ever die - but is this life??<br /> This nightmare is technically possible already, and will be even easier to realize in just a couple of decades. <br /> And what about the cost of this ghoulish folly? How many Americans already can't afford health insurance? 40 million? If we force insurance companies to cover life-sustaining machinery for thousands or milions of never-to-die bodies, a few hundred of the richest Americans will perhaps be able to afford health insurance premiums - and they don't need it anyway.<br /> When considering something, it helps to think about it as becoming commonplace. (Wasn't it Immanuel Kant, who gave us this swage advice?) Oh, and please spare me the "you can't put a price tag on human life" nonsense. Oh yes, you can. If not on life, then on everything that life needs to stay alive.</p> <p>P.S. Keeping Terri Schiavo in a vegetative state all these years was nothing if not a "cruel and unusual punishment". I can't fathom how anybody with half a heart would wish this on anybody else. And it fills me with dread to think that my wife or son might be prevented from an act of mercy, were I to become brain dead. That's why I put "do not resuscitate" in my living will. I hope it will be honored.</p> OK, so a guy with a really bad brain injury miraculously recovered after spending 20 years in a semi-vegetative state on a hospital bed, with all kinds of high-tech gear hooked up to him? Well, good for him. (I guess. I’m not in his shoes and, obviously, wouldn’t wanna be.) I understand, Tammy, that for you and some of your commenters this proves that taking Terri Schiavo out of her vegetative state and allowing her to die was murder – after all, if this guy recovered, why couldn’t she? If not after twenty, then maybe 50, maybe 120 years?
Let’s set aside the difference in the extent of brain damage in both cases, and ask these questions instead:
How much did it cost to keep this guy alive for twenty years, and who paid for it? If the money came from his savings, or his family, I’m perfectly fine with that. They can keep him in the hospital for another 20 years, for what I care. In a private room, with a view of the ocean. However, if the money came from insurance or from the government (read: taxes), then I have a problem with it. Healthcare is neither free nor an infinite resource. If insurance or taxes paid for it, then we all paid for it, without being asked to. Let’s imagine, for a second, that a lot of people get inspired by this story and demand, in their living wills, to be kept alive for however long it takes. Let’s further assume, that a law is passed (which you would undoubtedly support) banning anybody from disconnecting life support from a patient, no matter how hopeless his case. (Remember Terry Wallis? His case seemed hopeless, too.)
Even with today’s technology we are able to keep people alive for a very long time. Her heart failed? No problem, hook her up to this machine! His lungs no longer work? No problem, plug him in here! Brain dead? Oh, that’s a piece o’ cake – this apparatus over there will keep him alive forever. Most of these people will never recover. Our hospitals will turn into some bizarre version of “Matrix”, with rows and rows of unconscious, “almost dead” bodies being kept alive decade after decade with sophisticated machinery. Nobody will ever die – but is this life??
This nightmare is technically possible already, and will be even easier to realize in just a couple of decades.
And what about the cost of this ghoulish folly? How many Americans already can’t afford health insurance? 40 million? If we force insurance companies to cover life-sustaining machinery for thousands or milions of never-to-die bodies, a few hundred of the richest Americans will perhaps be able to afford health insurance premiums – and they don’t need it anyway.
When considering something, it helps to think about it as becoming commonplace. (Wasn’t it Immanuel Kant, who gave us this swage advice?) Oh, and please spare me the “you can’t put a price tag on human life” nonsense. Oh yes, you can. If not on life, then on everything that life needs to stay alive.

P.S. Keeping Terri Schiavo in a vegetative state all these years was nothing if not a “cruel and unusual punishment”. I can’t fathom how anybody with half a heart would wish this on anybody else. And it fills me with dread to think that my wife or son might be prevented from an act of mercy, were I to become brain dead. That’s why I put “do not resuscitate” in my living will. I hope it will be honored.

]]> By: syn http://tammybruce.com/2006/07/newsflash_for_michael_schiavo.html#comment-107867 syn Thu, 06 Jul 2006 12:56:00 +0000 http://tammybruce.com/2006/07/newsflash-for-michael-schiavo.php#comment-107867 <p>"As soon as man began considering himself the highest meaning in the world and the measure of everything, the world began to lose its human dimension, and man began to lose control of it" Vaclav Havel</p> “As soon as man began considering himself the highest meaning in the world and the measure of everything, the world began to lose its human dimension, and man began to lose control of it” Vaclav Havel

]]> By: ahwatukeejohn http://tammybruce.com/2006/07/newsflash_for_michael_schiavo.html#comment-107866 ahwatukeejohn Thu, 06 Jul 2006 12:03:00 +0000 http://tammybruce.com/2006/07/newsflash-for-michael-schiavo.php#comment-107866 <p>It is ironic and sad that our society denies men the basic old school rights of dignity between man and wife, they allow a man control of life and death over his wife when the possible, and spoken but ignored, motive for the decision over her life would be the fear of that woman telling the world how she went into a coma.</p> It is ironic and sad that our society denies men the basic old school rights of dignity between man and wife, they allow a man control of life and death over his wife when the possible, and spoken but ignored, motive for the decision over her life would be the fear of that woman telling the world how she went into a coma.

]]> By: Vicki http://tammybruce.com/2006/07/newsflash_for_michael_schiavo.html#comment-107865 Vicki Thu, 06 Jul 2006 06:28:00 +0000 http://tammybruce.com/2006/07/newsflash-for-michael-schiavo.php#comment-107865 <p>Our tragedy lies in the richness of available alternatives that are never seriously explored. Our tragedy is in our rigidity, our inflexibility, our cynicism, our disappointments, our habits, the empty solaces that we seek. Our tragedy is that in spite of all the possibilities, we are remorseless.</p> <p>RIP Terri.</p> Our tragedy lies in the richness of available alternatives that are never seriously explored. Our tragedy is in our rigidity, our inflexibility, our cynicism, our disappointments, our habits, the empty solaces that we seek. Our tragedy is that in spite of all the possibilities, we are remorseless.

RIP Terri.

]]> By: Tammy http://tammybruce.com/2006/07/newsflash_for_michael_schiavo.html#comment-107864 Tammy Thu, 06 Jul 2006 04:59:00 +0000 http://tammybruce.com/2006/07/newsflash-for-michael-schiavo.php#comment-107864 <p>Oh, I see outdoorspro, because I have a different opinion than you, I'm an ignorant rube. There's a little section in my book The New Thought Police that describes a thing called "groupthink." It would serve you well to read it.</p> <p>This may be a newsflash to you, but you do not have sole possession of the truth. I have my opinion and you have yours. One thing I've learned is that thoughtful people can come to different conclusions about serious issues without one or the other being an idiot. And if you respect someone, you can't decide that the person is only right or to be taken seriously when you agree with them. In fact, respecting someone means even more when you *do* disagree with them because it should make you think. </p> <p>I grew up considering your position, believing completely in science and its primary importance and foundational truth. Now I don't. It just might suit you to consider why I think the way I do and at least be curious about it. </p> <p>That is all. Next. :)</p> Oh, I see outdoorspro, because I have a different opinion than you, I’m an ignorant rube. There’s a little section in my book The New Thought Police that describes a thing called “groupthink.” It would serve you well to read it.

This may be a newsflash to you, but you do not have sole possession of the truth. I have my opinion and you have yours. One thing I’ve learned is that thoughtful people can come to different conclusions about serious issues without one or the other being an idiot. And if you respect someone, you can’t decide that the person is only right or to be taken seriously when you agree with them. In fact, respecting someone means even more when you *do* disagree with them because it should make you think.

I grew up considering your position, believing completely in science and its primary importance and foundational truth. Now I don’t. It just might suit you to consider why I think the way I do and at least be curious about it.

That is all. Next. :)

]]> By: Trinity http://tammybruce.com/2006/07/newsflash_for_michael_schiavo.html#comment-107863 Trinity Thu, 06 Jul 2006 04:37:00 +0000 http://tammybruce.com/2006/07/newsflash-for-michael-schiavo.php#comment-107863 <p>Doctors, like scientists, are loathe to admit that there may be things they do not know or can account for. That perhaps there is something divine about the human being and life itself that has a bit more going on than what doctors can imagine. Tammy</p> <p>If you would of read the article outdoorspro, you would of 'got' the fact that Tammy is expressing her disgust and dismay at the scientific world's lack of acknowledgement that a divine is at work. Yes, GOD. God!! Science is in fact His gift to us to help us understand the world HE created. </p> <p>Better jump in that fox hole and quick..good one Tink!</p> Doctors, like scientists, are loathe to admit that there may be things they do not know or can account for. That perhaps there is something divine about the human being and life itself that has a bit more going on than what doctors can imagine. Tammy

If you would of read the article outdoorspro, you would of ‘got’ the fact that Tammy is expressing her disgust and dismay at the scientific world’s lack of acknowledgement that a divine is at work. Yes, GOD. God!! Science is in fact His gift to us to help us understand the world HE created.

Better jump in that fox hole and quick..good one Tink!

]]> By: Tink http://tammybruce.com/2006/07/newsflash_for_michael_schiavo.html#comment-107862 Tink Thu, 06 Jul 2006 02:26:00 +0000 http://tammybruce.com/2006/07/newsflash-for-michael-schiavo.php#comment-107862 <p>ooooooh, you did it now outdoorspro. Hope you have a foxhole to jump into. </p> ooooooh, you did it now outdoorspro. Hope you have a foxhole to jump into.

]]> By: OutdoorsPro http://tammybruce.com/2006/07/newsflash_for_michael_schiavo.html#comment-107861 OutdoorsPro Thu, 06 Jul 2006 01:51:00 +0000 http://tammybruce.com/2006/07/newsflash-for-michael-schiavo.php#comment-107861 <p>You know Tammy, it really is sad that you dislike scientists so much. Also, that you have no idea what scientist really do.</p> <p>Most people who become scientists do so precisely because of the many, many things they do not know or understand, but wish to. It is exactly their lack of understanding that keeps them going forward.</p> <p>I've been a big fan of yours for years, but your anti-science bias and ignorance are really turning me off. You need to actually learn what science is.</p> You know Tammy, it really is sad that you dislike scientists so much. Also, that you have no idea what scientist really do.

Most people who become scientists do so precisely because of the many, many things they do not know or understand, but wish to. It is exactly their lack of understanding that keeps them going forward.

I’ve been a big fan of yours for years, but your anti-science bias and ignorance are really turning me off. You need to actually learn what science is.

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