I’ll be on Fox News around 10:20am ET (7:20am PT) to discuss the split in the Episcopal church . News reports indicate “at least 7 churches in Virginia who are opposed to the consecration of a gay bishop and the blessing of same sex unions have voted overwhelmingly to break from the Episcopal church in a dramatic demonstration of widening rifts within the denomination. The Virginia churches announced they will leave the Episcopal Dioceses of Virginia after their congregations voted overwhelmingly to depart because of liberal trends in the 2.2 million member Episcopal Church….”
I hope you can tune in.
I sent my thoughts to Fox on the matter. I noted I think this split indicates vibrant, active church members. As an activist it indicates to me an organization of people who refuse to be mired in groupthink, who are in touch with what they believe and are not going to conform to a emerging pov that contradicts what their beliefs is. For every organization, religious and otherwise, dissent and action on that dissent is imperative.
I have to tell you, being gay myself I am not someone who advocates forcing individuals or groups to adhere to a point of view they disagree with. Homosexuals *should be* a group that supports the rights of others to believe as they wish, even (especially) when that belief does not correspond with our own. After all, that’s what the gay community has asked of everyone else–accept us even though who we are contradicts your POV.
So, I think the churches which have split off have every right, and even a responsibility, to do so if they believe their diocese no longer represents their view of the faith. It’s a completely legitimate action.
And leaving a church, or splitting off, over the gay issue, is a matter of faith and certainly should not be some sort of clarion call indicative of so-called homophobia. Personally I have found people of faith, who diametrically oppose my homosexuality, to be much more tolerant of me than what I term the Gay Gestapo–the Far Left Gay Elite who seek to punish anyone who does not conform to the leftist POV.
I’ll be on with Bob Beckel, who will probably think differently from me on the issue. I say ‘probably,’ because sometimes he surprises me. He’s more of a classical Democrat, and thinks on his own more often than the Lefty fundies.
I also have no idea how much of this pov I’ll be able to get on the air, but I’ll try.
Just watched you on Fox with Bob “the flustered”. (Love it.) What you said makes so much sense. And your knowledgeable, unique perspective cannot (at least by thoughtful, rational human beings) be dismissed as being anti-gay/homophobic. But just as Condoleezza Rice and Colin Powell were referred to, by some, as “not really being black”, I suppose there will be those who label you as “not gay enough”. So weak.
You’re a seed-planter, Tammy. Some of those seeds will undoubtedly take root. You can’t help but make a difference.
Just saw you on Fox. I thought I would never hear that a gay person say they experienced tolerance from people of a religion which opposes homosexuality, even tho’ I know it happens every single day. As a Christian (some would even say “right-wing conservative” – gasp) am appauled at the crazy anti-gay things people do in the name of God. That is just not what we are taught in the Bible. We believe what the Bible says, that doesn’t mean we can’t live and work side by side. I respect you — you respect me — what more can we ask of each other. You are a breath of fresh air!
I like what Tammy says, coming from Tammy, about this church/homosexuality issue.
Before I got Saved eight years ago, I was mildly enthusiastic about homosexual “rights” and saving them from societal oppression. But, I also had a relative who has had a sex change operation, woman into man, and my (former) childhood best friend came out of the closet after high school but trashed his life in the most extreme homosexual lifestyle, which I witnessed as he tried to explain his lifestyle of frequenting homosexual bars, and even going to public parks where males were having sex with strangers in the bushes, literally. When those situations occurred to my relative and my best friend, I did not condemn the actions, but I silently wondered why they were doing such extreme, no-turning-back activities, which reasonable people would consider self-destructive.
After I got Saved, I now stand with the Bible teachings on these matters, which tell us NOT to engage in homosexual sex, or ANY sex outside of a life long commitment between a male husband and a female wife.
Jesus went among the sinners, where the Jewish faith did not tread, to bring sinners out of their sins, not to stamp approval upon sin. So it is incorrect for today’s Christians to force sinners out of sin, but when we go among them, we should do so intending to take them out of sinful lifestyles, never to stamp our approval for people to engage in sinful lifestyles.
From my perspective, this current tension between homosexuality and faith went nuclear a few years ago, when the phoney legal case in Texas found that homosexuality was no longer illegal, (fine with me), but then the homosexual activist groups tried to immediately turn it into an unholy mission to force homosexual values upon the public, and public schools, via the courts, with NO OPPOSING VIEWPOINTS ALLOWED, (which is why I support groups who are opposing the legalization and forced legitimatizing of homosexual lifestyles upon the country, who have overwhelmingly voted against homosexual marriage at the ballot box).
It makes me upset when people are now trying to rewrite Christianity and Bible teachings to bless sinful lifestyles, which is a total lie to say that Scripture supports homosexual activity in any way.
In the Bible, Jesus teaches that if a false teacher has followers, then they all go into the same ditch of condemnation, the blind leading the blind. Thus, these phoney church parishes that are promoting sinful lifestyles as legitimate Christian lifestyles are condemning themselves and their followers–they are bogus Christians living in contradiction to Scripture.
Tammy’s commentary highlights a major difference between conservative and left-wing gays. While Tammy doesn’t make any secret of her orientation, she doesn’t feel the need for others to agree with her or approve her lifestyle. Left-wing gays, on the other hand, have a need for approval by others. When they don’t get it, they cry “Homophobia!”
I think this inner- vs. outer-directedness is one major difference between the right and the left.
I agree that this issue revolves around acceptance and approval. I also think a lot of Christians can empathize because of the persecution they often face from secular progressives because of their lifestyle and beliefs. Most Christians however look to their God for acceptance and not the world, which is why it may be easier for them to quietly continue with their lives in the face of persecution.
I found it funny that the link you provided was from an associated press article published in the Daily Olympian. Up here in Washington state, most people know that paper as the Daily Zero, since it is mostly just a liberal rag. Must be really trying to keep your eye on the lefties to see what their up to be reading from this paper.
It is such a relief to finally see non-liberal gays represented on television. For the sake of young gay teens especially, this is very important. Too many will follow the rest of the herd right over the cliff, for the lack of acceptable, alternate influences.
Be well.
I’m not a member of this church but as I understand it the Gay issue is a very small part of the split. The biggest reason for leaving the main church is their decision to deny the basic doctrines of the Christian faith. The ordination of a gay bishop would have probably been tolerated but questioning essentials of the faith by church leaders won’t be…
Psalm 9:17 has is correct. In the Book of Revelation, there are messages from Jesus to seven different churches. In Rev 2:14-15, the message is to the Church at Pergamos. Jesus tells them that what He has against them is that they tolerate sin. This message, as well as the other six, applies to the churches of today.
There is not one verse in Scripture that says anything about God tolerating sin. Jesus is our role model. In the Great Commission, Jesus does not tell us to condemn sinners. He tells us to preach the Gospel to all the nations. John Hagee said it best when he said that we are in sales, God is in management.
I know that this has nothing to do with the topic, but I would like to know is it possible to send something to our Queen, and if so, How?
I’ve been listening to your radio show for a few months now. In the beginning, I was not aware of your sexuality, not until I visited your website. To be honest, it some-what surprised me.
I am 21 years old and am a gay male. Among my friends, I receive ‘gasps’ when I tell them I’m far from liberal and somewhat of a conservative democrat. I’ve even been attacked (by heterosexual liberals) and called a hypocrite for being gay and not a liberal. It astounds me the ignorance people have towards things, especially people who are supposedly tolerant of everyone/thing. (except conservatives)
Now, I will admit I have a predisposition towards the religious right. Growing up in a not-small-but-not-large city in Central Kentucky, I faced massive amounts of physical/verbal assault and abuse from the religious community for my sexuality. I ‘came out’ at an early age and was met with much opposition.
I’ve never been the type of person to say ‘you need to accept my sexuality’. What I’ve done is try and educate people on what they think they know about gays and lesbians and what’s actually true. Most, around here, still believe we want to make everyone gay and if you’re a gay male, you want to molest little boys. Hardly the truth. I’m perfectly fine with people disagreeing with my sexuality but there is a difference between that and taking it to a harassing / hateful perspective.
I have friends who disagree with homosexuality but are still my close friends, but I’ve attempted to attend many of the 80+ churches in my county and have been asked to leave all of them, due to my sexuality. I am not welcome in any church in the town I grew up in, so I have no place which to practice my beliefs because other people feel gays have no ‘right’ being religious and their mere presence is against ‘the will of God’.
One thing I notice a lot of people aren’t aware that most people in the gay community know nothing or care nothing about politics. It saddens me to hear friends say they don’t care about our rights, be they ‘gay’ related or even just our basic american rights and laws. I have friends who have no idea who Dick Cheney is, which is just sad for any American not to know your own VP.
It’s nice to finally be able to have someone in the political community that I can relate with and agree with on *most* issues. Though I disagree with you some of the time (Hey, can’t agree 100% of the time, right?), I love listening to your show each and every day.
As to this church split, I understand and support what they want to do, as it doesn’t follow their exact beliefs. But one of these days religion is just going to be ‘religion’. There are hundreds of sects and groups of different religions and churches and pretty soon it seems like it will just branch off to where everyone on earth is a different religion and belief than their neighbor. Not everyone who attends a church believes what that church believes. We can’t have a different ‘group’ for every differing belief.