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	<title>Comments on: Pancakes Versus Resisting the Enemy</title>
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	<link>http://tammybruce.com/2007/03/pancakes_versus_resisting_the_.html</link>
	<description>Independent. Conservative. Unruly.</description>
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		<title>By: pat_s</title>
		<link>http://tammybruce.com/2007/03/pancakes_versus_resisting_the_.html#comment-103814</link>
		<dc:creator>pat_s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2007 20:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tammybruce.com/2007/03/pancakes-versus-resisting-the-enemy.php#comment-103814</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;From the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article1605166.ece&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Grasping at Straws Department,&lt;/a&gt; the Timesonline tries hard to parse the statements of the hostages in a feeble attempt to portray them as more stalwart than their happy-go-lucky, pancake guzzling behavior informs us.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;What they said . . . and what they meant &lt;br /&gt;
The televised statements made by the captured British servicemen contained information and clues that might be interpreted as follows: &lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&quot;I have served in Foxtrot Nine Nine&quot; &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Leading Seaman Faye Turney &lt;br /&gt;
Royal Navy sailors would not normally use a call sign when referring to their ship in public&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&quot;As we had apparently gone into Iranian waters&quot; &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Leading Seaman Turney &lt;br /&gt;
She is careful to state this is the Iranian claim rather than the British position&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&quot;Representative (sic) of the House of Commons&quot; &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Leading Seaman Turney &lt;br /&gt;
Not a phrase used in Britain to refer to MPs. Evidence that the statement was dictated by someone else&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&quot;This has caused even more distrust for the people of Iran, and the whole area of the British&quot; &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Leading Seaman Turney &lt;br /&gt;
She has not corrected the glaring grammatical error of the &quot;whole area of the British&quot;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&quot;At approximately about 10 in the morning we were seized, apparently at this point here on their maps, and on the GPS they have shown us&quot; &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Captain Chris Air &lt;br /&gt;
Refusing to collaborate the Iranian position of the seizure and providing information that would help the Royal Navy to pinpoint the patrol&#039;s exact position&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&quot;Yes, I would like to say to the Iranian people, &#039;I can understand why you are so angry about our intrusion into your waters&#039; &quot; &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Lieutenant Felix Carman &lt;br /&gt;
Evidence that the statements by the sailors and Marines is being controlled by their captors&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the <a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article1605166.ece" rel="nofollow">Grasping at Straws Department,</a> the Timesonline tries hard to parse the statements of the hostages in a feeble attempt to portray them as more stalwart than their happy-go-lucky, pancake guzzling behavior informs us.</p>
<p><i>What they said . . . and what they meant <br />
The televised statements made by the captured British servicemen contained information and clues that might be interpreted as follows: </i></p>
<p><b>&#8220;I have served in Foxtrot Nine Nine&#8221; </b><br />
<i>Leading Seaman Faye Turney <br />
Royal Navy sailors would not normally use a call sign when referring to their ship in public</i></p>
<p><b>&#8220;As we had apparently gone into Iranian waters&#8221; </b><br />
<i>Leading Seaman Turney <br />
She is careful to state this is the Iranian claim rather than the British position</i></p>
<p><b>&#8220;Representative (sic) of the House of Commons&#8221; </b><br />
<i>Leading Seaman Turney <br />
Not a phrase used in Britain to refer to MPs. Evidence that the statement was dictated by someone else</i></p>
<p><b>&#8220;This has caused even more distrust for the people of Iran, and the whole area of the British&#8221; </b><br />
<i>Leading Seaman Turney <br />
She has not corrected the glaring grammatical error of the &#8220;whole area of the British&#8221;</i></p>
<p><b>&#8220;At approximately about 10 in the morning we were seized, apparently at this point here on their maps, and on the GPS they have shown us&#8221; </b><br />
<i>Captain Chris Air <br />
Refusing to collaborate the Iranian position of the seizure and providing information that would help the Royal Navy to pinpoint the patrol&#8217;s exact position</i></p>
<p><b>&#8220;Yes, I would like to say to the Iranian people, &#8216;I can understand why you are so angry about our intrusion into your waters&#8217; &#8221; </b><br />
<i>Lieutenant Felix Carman <br />
Evidence that the statements by the sailors and Marines is being controlled by their captors</i></p>
<p></p>
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		<title>By: Annoying Old Guy</title>
		<link>http://tammybruce.com/2007/03/pancakes_versus_resisting_the_.html#comment-103813</link>
		<dc:creator>Annoying Old Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 16:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tammybruce.com/2007/03/pancakes-versus-resisting-the-enemy.php#comment-103813</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;exactly how much pressure is required to get a British sailor to cooperate with the enemy these days?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What enemy? Could you find a single British politician who would unambiguously state that Iran is an enemy state? Clearly the MoD doesn&#039;t think so, or it wouldn&#039;t have ordered the HMS Cornwall to stand down.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>exactly how much pressure is required to get a British sailor to cooperate with the enemy these days?</p></blockquote>
<p>What enemy? Could you find a single British politician who would unambiguously state that Iran is an enemy state? Clearly the MoD doesn&#8217;t think so, or it wouldn&#8217;t have ordered the HMS Cornwall to stand down.</p>
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		<title>By: PeteRFNY</title>
		<link>http://tammybruce.com/2007/03/pancakes_versus_resisting_the_.html#comment-103812</link>
		<dc:creator>PeteRFNY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 03:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tammybruce.com/2007/03/pancakes-versus-resisting-the-enemy.php#comment-103812</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I will say one thing: the Germans may know how to make beer...the Swiss may know how to make cheese and chocolate...the Russians may know their way around a vat of vodka...the British may wow us with fish and chips...the Italians may have beautiful cities and delightful food...but nobody - and I mean NOBODY - knows how to take and exploit hostages quite like the Iranians do.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;They need to work that angle into their official flag or something like that.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will say one thing: the Germans may know how to make beer&#8230;the Swiss may know how to make cheese and chocolate&#8230;the Russians may know their way around a vat of vodka&#8230;the British may wow us with fish and chips&#8230;the Italians may have beautiful cities and delightful food&#8230;but nobody &#8211; and I mean NOBODY &#8211; knows how to take and exploit hostages quite like the Iranians do.</p>
<p>They need to work that angle into their official flag or something like that.</p>
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		<title>By: Swen</title>
		<link>http://tammybruce.com/2007/03/pancakes_versus_resisting_the_.html#comment-103811</link>
		<dc:creator>Swen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 02:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tammybruce.com/2007/03/pancakes-versus-resisting-the-enemy.php#comment-103811</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yes, when captured by the enemy, soldiers and sailors are supposed to resist, but let&#039;s not forget &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/009539.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;: &lt;i&gt;&quot;Britain exported over $700 million in goods to Iran last year and is one of their major trading partners.&quot;&lt;/i&gt; Don&#039;t sound like &quot;enemies&quot; to me.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8O5VM7O1&amp;show_article=1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Tony Blair&#039;s response&lt;/a&gt; to all this:&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;&quot;The important thing for us is to get them back safe and sound, but we can&#039;t enter into some basis of bargaining,&quot; Blair said. &quot;What you have to do when you are engaged with people like the Iranian regime, you have to keep explaining to them, very patiently, what it is necessary to do and at the same time make them fully aware there are further measures that will be taken if they&#039;re not prepared to be reasonable.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Yes, he&#039;s prepared to explain to them, very patiently, how very naughty they&#039;ve been. If that doesn&#039;t do it, he&#039;ll throw a horrible pout.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I remember when it was &quot;Speak softly and carry a big stick&quot;. Now, it&#039;s &#039;Speak interminably and carry no stick at all&#039;. I think the Iranians figured this out quite awhile ago, so let&#039;s not be too hard on the sailors left in the lurch by this feckless bunch. They don&#039;t want to lose one of their major trading partners.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, when captured by the enemy, soldiers and sailors are supposed to resist, but let&#8217;s not forget <a href="http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/009539.php" rel="nofollow">this</a>: <i>&#8220;Britain exported over $700 million in goods to Iran last year and is one of their major trading partners.&#8221;</i> Don&#8217;t sound like &#8220;enemies&#8221; to me.</p>
<p>And <a href="http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8O5VM7O1&#038;show_article=1" rel="nofollow">Tony Blair&#8217;s response</a> to all this:<br />
<blockquote><i>&#8220;The important thing for us is to get them back safe and sound, but we can&#8217;t enter into some basis of bargaining,&#8221; Blair said. &#8220;What you have to do when you are engaged with people like the Iranian regime, you have to keep explaining to them, very patiently, what it is necessary to do and at the same time make them fully aware there are further measures that will be taken if they&#8217;re not prepared to be reasonable.&#8221;</i></p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, he&#8217;s prepared to explain to them, very patiently, how very naughty they&#8217;ve been. If that doesn&#8217;t do it, he&#8217;ll throw a horrible pout.</p>
<p>I remember when it was &#8220;Speak softly and carry a big stick&#8221;. Now, it&#8217;s &#8216;Speak interminably and carry no stick at all&#8217;. I think the Iranians figured this out quite awhile ago, so let&#8217;s not be too hard on the sailors left in the lurch by this feckless bunch. They don&#8217;t want to lose one of their major trading partners.</p>
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		<title>By: Rod</title>
		<link>http://tammybruce.com/2007/03/pancakes_versus_resisting_the_.html#comment-103810</link>
		<dc:creator>Rod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 01:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tammybruce.com/2007/03/pancakes-versus-resisting-the-enemy.php#comment-103810</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;MLP   - â€â€¦. during the Vietnam War, our POW&#039;s resisted with everything they had despite their commander in chief being Johnson or Nixon.â€  Is right but it misses the point and overlooks a very important fact. Both Nixon and LBJ did not consider the prisoners to be expendable. As a Nam vet (a 1/5 1967 + 1968) I knew a few Jarheads who died in vertical envelopments attempting to free POWs. Both Bushes and Carter have shown that the POWs or hostages are on their own. Which is what Blair has done for 7 days now. Going to the UN is BS!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Nam POWâ€™s knew that we were doing what could be done, including sacrificing the lives of other warriors , to get them out. Except for a very short period of time (1981 â€“ 1988) this has not been the case. I have several friends/relatives in the military (Jarheads or SEALs) They understand this only too well. If they get caught they are on their own. Just like the Brits have been the last week. They do not fight for Bush they fight for the flag and for us. If they were fighting for Bush they would have quit already just like he has.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MLP   &#8211; â€â€¦. during the Vietnam War, our POW&#8217;s resisted with everything they had despite their commander in chief being Johnson or Nixon.â€  Is right but it misses the point and overlooks a very important fact. Both Nixon and LBJ did not consider the prisoners to be expendable. As a Nam vet (a 1/5 1967 + 1968) I knew a few Jarheads who died in vertical envelopments attempting to free POWs. Both Bushes and Carter have shown that the POWs or hostages are on their own. Which is what Blair has done for 7 days now. Going to the UN is BS!</p>
<p>Nam POWâ€™s knew that we were doing what could be done, including sacrificing the lives of other warriors , to get them out. Except for a very short period of time (1981 â€“ 1988) this has not been the case. I have several friends/relatives in the military (Jarheads or SEALs) They understand this only too well. If they get caught they are on their own. Just like the Brits have been the last week. They do not fight for Bush they fight for the flag and for us. If they were fighting for Bush they would have quit already just like he has.</p>
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		<title>By: pat_s</title>
		<link>http://tammybruce.com/2007/03/pancakes_versus_resisting_the_.html#comment-103809</link>
		<dc:creator>pat_s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 23:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tammybruce.com/2007/03/pancakes-versus-resisting-the-enemy.php#comment-103809</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Oops, you&#039;re right ANTONK.  I had a memory lapse and forgot the world morphed into Crackistan.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, you&#8217;re right ANTONK.  I had a memory lapse and forgot the world morphed into Crackistan.</p>
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		<title>By: AntonK</title>
		<link>http://tammybruce.com/2007/03/pancakes_versus_resisting_the_.html#comment-103808</link>
		<dc:creator>AntonK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 16:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tammybruce.com/2007/03/pancakes-versus-resisting-the-enemy.php#comment-103808</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Pat_S says: &quot;Didn&#039;t the world have it&#039;s knickers in a wad about the Geneva Convention and our Gitmo prisoners? The Brits are uniformed members of a nation&#039;s military. There&#039;s NO ARGUMENT they are covered under the Convention and cannot be paraded around on TV like that.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Au Contraire! there&#039;s an argument all right. The Belmont Club explains:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&quot;As currently interpreted the Geneva Conventions only apply to individuals bent on destroying America. Individuals who blow up elementary schools, kidnap children, attack churches and mosques, kill invalids in wheelchairs, plan attacks on skyscrapers in New York, behead journalists, detonate car bombs with children to camouflage their crime, or board jetliners with explosive shoes -- all while wearing mufti or even women&#039;s clothing -- these are all considered &quot;freedom fighters&quot; of the most principled kind. They and they alone enjoy the protections of the Geneva Convention. As to Americans like Tucker and Menchaca or Israeli Gilad Shalit -- or these fifteen British sailors for that matter, it is a case of &quot;what Geneva Convention?&quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;From: &lt;a href=&quot;http://fallbackbelmont.blogspot.com/2007/03/name-rank-and-serial-number.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://fallbackbelmont.blogspot.com/2007/03/name-rank-and-serial-number.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pat_S says: &#8220;Didn&#8217;t the world have it&#8217;s knickers in a wad about the Geneva Convention and our Gitmo prisoners? The Brits are uniformed members of a nation&#8217;s military. There&#8217;s NO ARGUMENT they are covered under the Convention and cannot be paraded around on TV like that.&#8221;</p>
<p>Au Contraire! there&#8217;s an argument all right. The Belmont Club explains:</p>
<p>&#8220;As currently interpreted the Geneva Conventions only apply to individuals bent on destroying America. Individuals who blow up elementary schools, kidnap children, attack churches and mosques, kill invalids in wheelchairs, plan attacks on skyscrapers in New York, behead journalists, detonate car bombs with children to camouflage their crime, or board jetliners with explosive shoes &#8212; all while wearing mufti or even women&#8217;s clothing &#8212; these are all considered &#8220;freedom fighters&#8221; of the most principled kind. They and they alone enjoy the protections of the Geneva Convention. As to Americans like Tucker and Menchaca or Israeli Gilad Shalit &#8212; or these fifteen British sailors for that matter, it is a case of &#8220;what Geneva Convention?&#8221;</p>
<p>From: <a href="http://fallbackbelmont.blogspot.com/2007/03/name-rank-and-serial-number.html" rel="nofollow">http://fallbackbelmont.blogspot.com/2007/03/name-rank-and-serial-number.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: mlp</title>
		<link>http://tammybruce.com/2007/03/pancakes_versus_resisting_the_.html#comment-103807</link>
		<dc:creator>mlp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 15:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tammybruce.com/2007/03/pancakes-versus-resisting-the-enemy.php#comment-103807</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Rob, you could be completely right about the lack of leadership coming from both the British and American Governments but it should make no difference.  Remember that during the Vietnam War, our POW&#039;s resisted with everything they had despite their commander in chief being Johnson or Nixon.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;When Admiral James Stockdale knew he had reached his breaking point and no longer had the strength to resist his captors, he deliberately disfigured himself rather than go on camera and spew enemy propaganda.  He received the Medal of Honor for this action which he considered no more than  his duty as a member of the US Navy.  He never gave a thought to whether or not the leadership in Washingon was worthy of such sacrifice.  Our men and women don&#039;t fight for an administration.  If they ever do, all hope is lost.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob, you could be completely right about the lack of leadership coming from both the British and American Governments but it should make no difference.  Remember that during the Vietnam War, our POW&#8217;s resisted with everything they had despite their commander in chief being Johnson or Nixon.  </p>
<p>When Admiral James Stockdale knew he had reached his breaking point and no longer had the strength to resist his captors, he deliberately disfigured himself rather than go on camera and spew enemy propaganda.  He received the Medal of Honor for this action which he considered no more than  his duty as a member of the US Navy.  He never gave a thought to whether or not the leadership in Washingon was worthy of such sacrifice.  Our men and women don&#8217;t fight for an administration.  If they ever do, all hope is lost.</p>
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		<title>By: PeteRFNY</title>
		<link>http://tammybruce.com/2007/03/pancakes_versus_resisting_the_.html#comment-103806</link>
		<dc:creator>PeteRFNY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 15:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tammybruce.com/2007/03/pancakes-versus-resisting-the-enemy.php#comment-103806</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I don&#039;t think Margaret Thatcher would have stood for this sort of thing. But I could be wrong.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think Margaret Thatcher would have stood for this sort of thing. But I could be wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: pat_s</title>
		<link>http://tammybruce.com/2007/03/pancakes_versus_resisting_the_.html#comment-103805</link>
		<dc:creator>pat_s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 13:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tammybruce.com/2007/03/pancakes-versus-resisting-the-enemy.php#comment-103805</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Could be that some form of coercion is being applied to the captives.  I wonder how much is necessary.  We do know the West has gone soft.  We can see it in the timidity of the British government.  They prefer wafflesâ€”with lots of syrup.  They actually thought they were getting tough by going public with the story that the GPS coordinates first supplied by Iran confirmed the boat was in Iraqi waters.  Take that!  With little exception, the British press shows no spine.  For the most part their opinion is this would never have happened were it not for Blair&#039;s gigantic Iraq mistake and the belligerence of America.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And now the latest from Ashley. You can&#039;t ever appease these people enough.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could be that some form of coercion is being applied to the captives.  I wonder how much is necessary.  We do know the West has gone soft.  We can see it in the timidity of the British government.  They prefer wafflesâ€”with lots of syrup.  They actually thought they were getting tough by going public with the story that the GPS coordinates first supplied by Iran confirmed the boat was in Iraqi waters.  Take that!  With little exception, the British press shows no spine.  For the most part their opinion is this would never have happened were it not for Blair&#8217;s gigantic Iraq mistake and the belligerence of America.  </p>
<p>And now the latest from Ashley. You can&#8217;t ever appease these people enough.</p>
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