Maynard chimes in…
…and tries not to repeat the same talking points.
This is a quirky situation. Two points must be acknowledged:
- Whatever the president does will be subject to political criticism. Rightly or wrongly, opponents will say Obama got it wrong.
- In this case we find unusual divisions and alliances on the pro and con sides. There are liberals and conservatives that wanted us to stay out, while other liberals and conservatives wanted us to get in earlier. Some look at the rebels and see freedom fighters; others see terrorists. Within the Obama administration, it seems that Obama and Secretary Gates wanted out, while Secretary Clinton pushed us in. So there’s no broad sense of a “conservative” or “liberal” position here.
In acknowledgement of the foregoing, I’m uncertain of my own advocacy. This isn’t like the budget deficit, where any fool can see the spending must stop; I lack that clarity with Libya. So I (Maynard) will let others argue the specifics of what we should or shouldn’t do. In forming an opinion, I’m mostly interested in the thoughts of people that have a good track record in addressing this sort of situation. For example, has Gen. McChrystal or Gen. Petraeus weighed in? Yes, and (dare I say it?) John McCain.
But the framework of Obama’s decision-making process may be a bigger issue than the decision itself. That’s what’s really on my mind.
Remember when Bush went into Iraq? Granted, Iraq was a vastly bigger commitment than Libya. (Although when you start these things, you’re never quite sure exactly how big they’re going to be. That’s why you might end up prematurely announcing “Mission accomplished.”) But think about what Bush did prior to engaging the military. He had to get Congress on board. As his next priority, it was also Bush’s goal to achieve as broad an international coalition as possible. He leaned on the U.N. and allies. But cooperation was limited. In the end, Bush got Congress but not the U.N. As far as he was concerned, that was enough.
In that sense, Obama is the anti-Bush (or maybe I should say the anti-American). Obama’s top priority was to pursue a U.N. stamp of approval. And an okay from the Arab League. Plus leadership from France. Then we go to war. And finally, as an afterthought, he’s got to deal with the American people and their representatives. (Peggy Noonan (a Reagan speechwriter in her day) has posted posted this article about the speech Obama should have given.)
There are situations where a president must act quickly and decisively. In war, you can’t call a timeout. But this isn’t that sort of scenario. America moved slowly — which was of concern to those who argued that quick action was essential. But the slow movement wasn’t for the sake of addressing the American people. The delay was (aside from Obama’s presumed hesitation to go in at all) to allow an international coalition to coalesce without American leadership.
So, as with Obamacare, the American people are out of the loop. We’re again slapped in the face with Obama’s attitude that daddy knows best. You’ll recall how the “Bush lied us into war” meme was thrown at us by the sullen opposition unsatisfied by the arguments Bush made to the American people. I guess you can’t say that Obama lied us into war, in that he didn’t think we, or Congress, were worth consulting. (Although now that he’s finally addressed us, it’s been pointed out that that Obama’s justifications don’t fit the facts. If he’d made this speech earlier, I guess we could have said Obama lied us into war.)
That’s the attitude of our president. You’ll take it and like it. In Obama’s America, the people serve the State, and the State serves the United Nations. Which is backwards from the way the Constitution defined the nation. We are setting dangerous precedents; precedents our nation will come to regret when we realize we’ve defined a new norm. Does anyone care?
If I were parliamentarian I’d ask for (point of order) about now
Thank You Maynard for your thoughts on the Libya situation. A friend and i last night were just talking about Obama and how he cares more about the United Nations than what we the American People feel. But yet again should we be surprised by anything Barry does.
The humanitarian references in Obama’s speech are pretty much boilerplate for rationalizing Western military intervention. The trumpet call is the high note of values.
Obama (Libya): For generations, the United States of America has played a unique role as an anchor of global security and as an advocate for human freedom.
Bush (Mission Accomplished): In this battle, we have fought for the cause of liberty, and for the peace of the world.
Clinton (Kosovo): We act to protect thousands of innocent people in Kosovo from a mounting military offensive. … By acting now, we are upholding our values, protecting our interests, and advancing the cause of peace.
It’s starting to wear thin. Barbarity and cruelty are more commonplace in the world than kindness and compassion. We will not and can not intervene in all cases. We pick and choose based on some form of self-interest and then vindicate our actions as intervening for the sake of others. That’s life and I have seen enough of it to be cynical when it comes to maudlin appeals.
No-fly zone: Clouding words of war
Whose self-interest is being served and why? There is something fishy about all this Middle East turmoil. I have the distinct feeling we are being snookered.
Pat_S is spot-on, here. It’s, ‘meet the new boss, same as the old boss’ stuff when it comes to Lybia. Watching Obama supporters trying to parse the difference between this and, the Bush wars’ is like looking into a snake pit.
The sad truth is that man’s inhumanity to man is as old as man. In these situations groups of people take action most often based on the one constant of humanity’s darker self…greed.
Regarding Maynard’s Libya musings, here’s a hypothetical question: Now that the U.S. appears to be taking its marching orders from the (expletive-deleted — please insert fav vulgarity here) U.N. Security Council, what would happen if its members pass a resolution condemning Israel for “slaughtering” so-called Palestinians? Will our (expletive-deleted — please insert fav vulgarity here) POTUS decide to bomb Israel on “humanitarian” grounds? Inquiring minds want to know….
Wow, thought provoking question, truly. If POTUS ordered an attack on Israel, would that change the mind of liberal Jewish voters? Mayor Koch comes to mind, he insisted Urkel would be a friend to Israel, and he should’ve known better. At least, he has now changed his mind, but too late. Your question got me to further ponder on what it would take to turn a liberal against Urkel. Maybe it’s not the same answer for all liberals. During the 2008 campaign he took several condescending swipes at average Americans (like who’s ever heard of a plumber making $250K!), bitter clingies etc. Ann Coulter wrote a hilarious piece post-election grasping for what it would take to insult a Pennsylvanian. He brutally mispronounced the name of the Penn State mascot, while John Murtha called people in his district racist rednecks; and wasn’t his bitter clingy speech in San Fran referring to those people? I know you all know these examples, but I’m wondering if there’s an explanation for why someone would vote for someone who insults them? Is it low self-esteem? (I’m sure there were a good number of people who didn’t know they were being insulted because it wasn’t covered in the media and/or they didn’t pay attention to the news.) I for one tend to despise people who mistreat me or my family or friends; I would not support them in anything. It’s gotta be something to do with how liberals see themselves and what they may or may not think they deserve, but I do not know specifically.
shifra…that’s exactly the same thing a caller on levin asked last week…which is the logical bullshit charter obastard would have us follow…MORE hate the jews, cos the (expletive-deleted — please insert fav vulgarity here) UN saya ao…it’s kinda like a perverted way to break down the last little bit of respect americans have for israel…BUT there dastardly plah will backfire cos REAL americans love the jews :D woohooo!!!…(pokes obastard & the (expletive-deleted — please insert fav vulgarity here) UN right in the eye) :D
I would imagine Tripoli right now is a hotbed of lockdowns, paranoia, accusations and all sorts of behind-the-scenes skullduggery as pro-Ghaddafy forces prepare for the inevitable undercover CIA and other intelligence operatives seeking to capture or kill their leader. Not to mention the possibility of high-level defections in Ghaddafy’s government goaded on by promises from western powers, and perhaps abetted by reopening tribal concerns and rivalries that even predate the Libyan state. Yeah, the atmosphere must be pretty tense and ugly in Tripoli about now, with perhaps even family members eyeing each other suspiciously, not to mention citizens on the street.
Perhaps Ghaddafy has a number of “fake Ghaddafy” decoys made up to resemble him at various locations, while the real Ghaddafy watches events from an underground bunker in the south of France.