We know at least the government did not. After almost 5 years of work, millions of dollars spent, and thousands of man hours working to do one thing–get Moussaoui the death penalty, it didn’t work. Is it the incompetence of federal prosecutors, a dense jury? Or, as some are arguing , was this case overcharged from the beginning?
Zacarias Moussaoui to Get Life Sentence for Sept. 11
The jury in Alexandria, Virginia, rejected prosecutors’ arguments that Moussaoui should be executed for the attacks that killed almost 3,000 people. Moussaoui, the only person charged in the U.S. in connection with Sept. 11, testified he knew about the plot when he was arrested a month before the attacks and lied to FBI agents because he wanted the mission to go forward. Defense lawyers called him a paranoid schizophrenic from a violent family.
Right now I’m preparing to participate in a small gathering of people to host Dr. Wafa Sultan tonight, or I would be blogging more on this. You all know I’m a proponent of the death penalty. The scum of Moussaoui does not deserve to live his life in any context. The moment he came here with the express intent of killing as many Americans as possible as an agent of al-Qaida alone requires his execution. We’ve executed people on less in times of war, for spying, as an example, because of the potential harm their acts could elicit.
I’m curious to see your thoughts about the sentencing verdict. Upon leaving court today Moussaoui shouted, “America, you lost, I won.” Is he right?
Our friend Roger L. Simon, an opponent of the death penalty, has this to say. And Little Green Footballs reminds us about the rules of martyrdom.
I haven’t followed the details of the story, so I won’t try to comment. I was wondering, in a general sort of way, who has jurisdiction in a case like this? That is, it would seem we’re dealing with a war criminal rather than a domestic criminal, so I might expect a military court rather than a civilian one. But that’s just a vague sense; I assume there are reasons it was done as it was. By the way, that’s been one of the big technical disputes with respect to the Gitmo camp. Civilian prisoners have certain rights, as do P.O.W.s. My understanding is the government regards the Gitmo detainees as “enemy combatants”, which isn’t the same thing. A P.O.W. has an identifiable command structure with whom we can ultimately negotiate. For example, if we held German soldiers in WWII and then the Germans surrendered, the soldiers we held would be under orders from their own people to lay down their arms. A random enemy combatant is more like a rogue criminal, except he’s fighting in a war, so we can’t give him the civilian rights like the ACLU or a bunch of other governments would like them to have. Anyway, there are reasons (sometimes hotly debated) why people get classified as they do. I don’t know how or why Moussaoui got classified.
Some have argued that he’ll be killed in prison – I doubt that very much. At every hardcore prison there is a sizeable population of muslims who are very happy to protect alqaeda subhumans. Moo-sow-ee will live a long time yet before he meets his maker – satan.
As I have said before, it’s time to let the prison inmates have their say. You know what will happen if he is left in the general prison population….If he is executed, he gets the virgins, if not he gets BIG BUBBA!!!!
I too feel he should have been put to death…but as it has been said before, he would then be a ‘hero’ to his other murdering slime-ball piece of crap radical Islamic comrad creeps…a martyr…I don’t think that the government, Left or Right, has the guts to execute a terrorist no matter what he did or how many Americans died …so here is ANOTHER dredge of society that we’ll be taking care of until someone throws a Pot-Bellied pig in the same cell with this guy and he tries to squeeze through the bars to get out…I would only hope that a fellow inmate will give him his just deserves like what happened to Jeffery Dahmer…another slap in the face for America…Bin Ladin must be partying in the cave about now…
I did not follow this trial and also will not keep up with the trials of the snipers that are coming up simply because I have better things to do with my time than bother with these sonofabitches. Tammy, I am pro-death penalty also especially in a case like this where it was murder, admitted and no remorse , only mockery. However , for some reason I am not outraged at the life sentence. I heard a prosecutor on Fox the other morning describing what his “life” in solitary confinement will be like for the rest of his life. It sounds like just existing in a hell hole for hopefully the next 50 years until he meets his master ( satan ), then satan gets him for eternity. Also the fact that he wanted death is a slap in his face and spit in his eye. Lock this bastard up for life, never to hear his name again and let him rot . Yea, he won alright. NOT.
“I was wondering, in a general sort of way, who has jurisdiction in a case like this?”
Since he was charged with violations of federal criminal statutes, and was present in US territory, the (civilian) federal courts have and had jurisdiction. For whatever reason, that was the route that the government chose to take. I’m not at all familiar with the actual details of the case, but if he did any of the plotting, plannning, etc. here in the US, it’s possible that one or more states may still be able to charge him with capital murder and/or conspiracy to commit murder, or other crimes.
For a good intro to this area of law, while it may be an older (WWII) case, I’d suggest you might want to at least skim Ex Parte Quirin, 317 U.S. 1 (1942), the famed “German saboteurs” case, available here.
I don’t think he’s going to be claiming victory for long, considering where he’s going. ADX Florence isn’t exactly Martha Stewart’s kind of prison. 😉
BTW, one of the inmates at this “supermax” prison was killed by two others last year–the first one in a supermax. I don’t think Moussaoui is going to have things too easy there.
I like the message that was sent with this verdict – Americans don’t kill just because we can, and we don’t kill to avenge the deaths of our own. We kill when justice will best be served by killing. In this case, he should be left alive where he will be a nobody, forever remembered as a failure and a “wannabe”. In death, he would have achieved maryrdome. WE have won because we took that away from him…
“…I don’t think that the government, Left or Right, has the guts to execute a terrorist no matter what he did or how many Americans died …”
Timmy McVeigh might argue with that if the government, who doesn’t have the guts to execute terrorists, hadn’t executed him for his act of terrorism.
As for this other piece of dung? Look for the left in this country to demand his release in a campaign the likes of “Free Mumia”. The jury handed them a bullet when they said that his “traumatic upbringing” and “abusive father” contributed to their decision.
Does this REALLY surprise anyone? Johnny Walker Lindh is only doing like 20 years for what ammounts to treason, and THAT is the one crime that the Constitution PROSCRIBES the death penalty for.
America lost this battle a long time ago, in the 60’s, when a generation of wretches came of age that bought into the leftwing bag and proceded to became accademics, have kids, and spread the disease of their youth to future generations that has made this country the potential circa fifth century Rome that it is today: the government seeks office simply for the sake of riches and power, the huns attack our cities, and the goths have settled within our borders…at the invitation of same government mentioned above.
Guess the real question is: Do we, as a nation, have the guts to be the nation we once were, OR have race-baiters, “feminists”(of the SOW, er, NOW variety), the mainstream media and the ACLU whipped us into a timid people incapable of defending ourselves for fear of “hurting somebody” or “offending those who are different from us”?
Time will tell if we, unlike Rome before us, can reverse the course of self destruction.
I guess what I’m trying to say is, not only should Moussaoui be executed, it should be the gas chamber, not the needle, and it should be filmed and posted on jihadi web sites around the net.
It sends a simple message: We catch you, we kill you in an ugly fashion, and we show your humiliation and failure to the whole world, so your family can be shamed also.
Might make potential terrorists think twice if they now the penalty is a shameful (by their standards) death that will mar their family name for generations to come.
Sorry for the rant, I’m still boiling from the May Day Marches for Criminals.
a desrciption of the place he’s going to:
ADX Florence is generally home to between 400 and 500 male prisoners. About 22 percent of inmates have killed fellow prisoners in other correctional facilities; 35 percent have attempted to attack other prisoners or guards. As a result, most individuals are kept for at least 23 hours each day in solitary confinement. They are housed in a 7-by-12 foot (3.5-by-2 meter) soundproofed room, built behind a steel door and grate. The remaining free hour is spent exercising alone in a separate concrete chamber. Prisoners rarely see each other, and inmates’ only human interaction is limited to that of the prison guards. Religious services are broadcasted in from a small chapel.
The cells are 60 feet below ground.
Most cells’ furniture is made almost entirely out of poured concrete, including a desk, stool, and bed covered by a thin mattress. Each chamber contains a toilet that shuts off if plugged, a shower that runs on a timer to prevent flooding, and a sink missing a potentially dangerous tap. Rooms may also be fitted with polished steel mirrors bolted to the wall, an electric light, and a 13-inch black and white television, and a cigarette lighter. Windows in rooms are small, set high up in the wall, and point towards the sky, confusing the prisoner as to his specific location within the complex.
The prison as a whole contains countless motion detectors and cameras, 1,400 remote-controlled steel doors, and 12 foot high razor wire fences. Laser beams, pressure pads, and attack dogs guard the area between the prison walls and razor wire. Built into the side of a mountain, visitors and prisoners enter through a heavily-guarded tunnel.
Entry 24
Like Horse I’ve wondered why he’s being tried in civilian court rather than being held as an enemy combatant. If someone says they are part of a terrorist organization maybe we should believe them… if we’re at war maybe we should start acting like it.
Shelby Steele’s WSJ article this week is a masterpiece about this very thing. Beginning with Vietnam we have turned away from the principle of total defeat (of a Third World enemy) so the world won’t call us names (racist, imperialist, etc). This trial and especially the verdict is a perfect example or our politically correct fears and guilt complex.
Tammy, it’s like your mugging story. The jury wanted to show the world how “fair” and “open-minded” they are.
But our enemies only will only see it as weakness which ultimately invites aggression.
He should be hanged in public.
One of the things I hate most about the life-in-prison winning over execution for anyone let alone this scum is the fact that they are not worthy of the time, energy and money it takes to keep them alive. It makes me sick to know that we will be paying to keep him alive. Our hard work (money) deserves more than him.
I wonder if the jurors now free of their duty and allowed back into reality will contemplate, as any juror might after a trial is finished, if they made the right decision. Will they watch “United 93†and feel more raw emotion than the victim’s families could give in words and tears alone?
I find it interesting that Kos has no posting on the verdit while the DUers are perfectly giddy claiming that all of us “freepers are spittin’ mad” that Moussaoui didn’t get a sentence of death.
I’m past questioning their patriotism. Now I’m questioning their right to breath.
Who ARE these people???
I admit, I am a bit emotional over this verdict. Having said that, I believe this terrorist scum bag should have been put to death. He will be a living martyr. This ‘open mindedness’ reasoning may sound good to American ears, but to the radical Islamic evil ones, it shows weakness. I disgree with the jury and this ‘person’ should have been put to death.
AMERICA, YOU LOST!
Once again Alberto (our seemingly incompetent but PC AG) has hia lunch eaten With Alberto’s abysmal lack of success in cases relating to the War on Terror you have to question my liberal President’s commitment . It seems more and more to have all been a disingenuous political flim flam; all be it a successful flim flam. Only batting is baseball is a success rate less than 500 considered good. In fielding a good rate is 999 and in the technical side of business (Accounting, IS…) you need 99999 or better to be a success. With Alberto’s string of losses the last 12 month he is just under 500.
My liberal President obviously put quotas ahead of the War on Terror. With the Dubai cases (plural as in more than one) it seems Bush does not even have the War on Terror in his to ten list of priorities! As the Scotch have been saying for over 1500 years â€actions speak louder than wordsâ€. Bush’s liberal actions the last 16 months are shouting over his conservative words of 24 months ago!
I too am pro-death penalty and feel he should have gotten death not life in prison. US taxpayers have already spent millions on his “trial” and now we will be spending more to keep him in prison. I think this country has bent over so far backwards in showing the world how compassionate we are, we lost site of that fact, that some people should not be coddled and that a hug doesn’t always solve everything. As humans we have the decency to put down an animal that is dying, hurt, has rabies, etc and even humans on life support with no hope of recovery, but then someone comes along who does what he was found guilty of, but we then allow him to continue to live. By not being strong in this case, we appear weak. And if this was an american, charged with these same changes in a foreign land, do we think he/she would get the same treatment or would they be executed, most likely in public?
Zacarias Moussaoui has become, for all intents and purposes, the Mumia Abu-Jamal of the 21st century.
In international opinion we’re in a lose, lose situation. We won’t get credit for sparing him and he’ll have streets named after him. In the Muslim world he’ll be a martyr dead or alive. Sooner or later there’ll be some situation where either Americans are kidnapped and a demand will be made to release him, or like another commenter wrote Amnesty Int will claim he’s being tortured or should be freed. He’ll file appeal after appeal and he’ll recant earlier testimony. Some Lynn Stewart type will plot to free him. If we tried to execute him it would be the same. If he’s killed in prison it’ll be called a Mossad plot.
Hey Tammy, maybe you could tell us more about Dr. Wafa Sultan. She sounds like a unique woman to say the least!
Islamofascists such as Moussaoui are worthless pieces of protoplasm that do nothing but pollute the gene pool. They should be killed like rabid dogs. A dead martyr is still dead. The more the merrier.
It is a sad comment on our judicial system and the jury that they didn’t have the guts to kill this slimeball.
In terms of time and money spent, we lost big time. But, that’s the price we pay for living in a nation governed by laws (even though they aren’t always handled fairly). As far as what his sentence would mean symbolically, we were in a no-win situation anyway. If the purpose of the sentencing is punishment, there is no way to achieve that. I’m personally on the pro side of the death penalty and that was the outcome I hoped for. But in death he would have died believing himself a martyr, whether he fit the true profile or not. Now, with a life sentence of 24 hour isolation, he still will believe he’s living in the will of Allah. There will never be any remorse. The only thing we truly “won” was the fact that we have once again proved that America is different than many other countries because we do try to administer justice in a fair manner instead of sending people straight to the chopping block. In this case, I might have even preferred the latter, but we must support one of the ideals of our way of life that makes us who we are. I only wish we could pursue justice and punish severely when needed with a much lower price tag; because, people like this aren’t worth the amount spent.
I’ll be of the minority view that the Moussasoi case was way overhyped by the MSM. We all knew the guy would not get out again, and the fact the MSM sorted every damn detail now invited the French to try to make some political hay on it again. I could not give a whit whether the guy gets executed or not, and the fact that the guy was given a mouthpiece by the media continues to give the Islamofascists free advertising.
This type of reporting is symptomatic of a weak press, dissecting details about a 09/11 co-conspirator many I’ll wager weren’t that interested in as long as the guy was in the slammer. It seems like they don’t have enough to do again, the media.
Remind me again why we should trust the French on anything, let alone the Iran nuclear question. The French are untrustworthy and anti-American because of their major Muslim base. I thought we covered this ground in the 2004 election with John Kerry and the multiculturalism issues. Some issues just like to hang around.
This verdict has done immeasurable damage to our country. From now on, there is no death penalty in America. In any jurisdiction, no matter what the evil nature of a crime, the counsel for the defense can say, “Moussaoui killed 2700 people and wasn’t executed. My client only dismembered 20. How can you kill my client when you didn’t execute Moussaoui?” Thanks again to the politics of race and victimhood.