A post by Pat
Why can’t America fight wars without hurting people?
There’s still a little more America bashing to be wrung out of torture but that’s becoming a worn out excuse for anti-Americanism. Those pictures will really be sensational, but then what? It’s time for a new outrage. Civilian casualties in Afghanistan looks promising. It doesn’t matter that the majority of civilians are killed either directly at the hands of the Taliban or indirectly by using human shields. Sometimes civilians are killed by American bombs and that’s a winner in the anti-America sweepstakes. The lecturing is underway. Here’s a sample from last Sunday. Hamid Karzai says we are not performing up to the proper moral standard. If we aren’t better than the bad guys, we’re going to lose. Bob Woodward admonishes we can’t go around killing Afghans. Katy Kay of the BBC informs us our perceived callousness is fueling world-wide anti-American sentiment.
Are we just like the bad guys?
Human Rights Watch: Airstrikes and Civilian Deaths in Afghanistan
Us
Planned attacks allow the US and NATO to use civilian risk mitigation procedures,including formal risk estimates to model and minimize civilian casualties. This includes a “pattern of life analysis,†which looks for civilians in the area for hours or days before an attack using “eyes on the target†ranging from ground observers to technical reconnaissance. According to NATO Judge Advocate General (JAG) staff, the US and NATO also require positive visual identification of the target during a planned strike, allowing the pilot to look for civilians and call off an attack based on those observations. Planned strikes also allow the US and NATO to develop a target over time, thereby using far more detailed intelligence to understand who is and is not in the target area.
…Often these situations involve “Troops in Contact†(TIC). A TIC is an unplanned engagement occurring when US or NATO ground forces unexpectedly come into contact with insurgent forces. According to US and UK operational planners, in such situations, the US or NATO forces are usually instructed to withdraw from the area without any airstrikes being carried out due to concerns for civilian casualties; airstrikes are most often carried out when withdrawal is not an option, as when troops are ambushed and find their retreat blocked.
Them
In the summer of 2007, four civilians were killed by US airstrikes and tank fire during a firefight with Taliban insurgents in a small village in Arghandab, in Kandahar province. According to local residents, five days before the fighting, Taliban forces occupied the village. They forced villagers to provide food and shelter, and would not permit them to leave. Taliban fighters spent the next three days preparing firing positions in homes and trenches around houses, and forced villagers to remain indoors. Villagers pleaded to be allowed to leave. A farmer told Human Rights Watch, “We told them that we are Muslims and that their presence in my house would kill us. They didn’t listen to us and now my two sons and my two brothers are dead.â€
On the fourth day a small US mechanized force entered the village and was attacked by Taliban insurgents firing from homes. After a protracted gun battle, the US forces called in tactical airstrikes. The farmer told Human Rights Watch: The Taliban came to my house and shot at the Americans from my house. The Americans believed that my house was a Taliban house. The Americans then dropped bombs near to my house because of the Taliban and two of my brothers were killed. The Taliban kept firing from my house and then an American tank fired again, killing my sons. The Taliban ran away leaving my family dead and my house destroyed.
Chora District in Uruzgan ProvinceVillagers told Human Rights Watch that when the Taliban entered the villages they told the villagers they had to join in their fight against Afghan government forces or they would be killed. In the village of Sarab the Taliban reportedly executed approximately 30 civilians both for not joining in the fight and as a message to the local population. At least 12 civilians fled the village and fought with Afghan and NATO forces against the Taliban during the ensuing battle. One eyewitness told Human Rights Watch that his mother-in-law’s hands were first cut off and she was then set on fire. His brother-in-law and brother were also killed, and other villagers were also set on fire. His son was taken by the Taliban, tortured, and set on fire, but was able to escape and survived. The Taliban forced villagers to house and feed them, and would not allow them to leave the homes for fear of allowing NATO forces to learn of the specific locations of Taliban fighters. The eyewitness said that during the battle the Taliban forced people to remain in their homes. NATO aircraft bombed the homes from which the Taliban were firing, causing the deaths of at least 15 civilians in his village. He estimated that at least 30 civilians were killed in the battle.
No, we are most emphatically not the same. If the morally high platform is to send our ground forces into the killing fields without air support, Mr. Karzai can go fly a kite. Oh right, the Taliban won’t allow that.
We don’t go around callously killing Afghans. If the world really has that perception, whose fault is it?
War IS hell. Innocents do get killed and on all sides. The innocents outnumber the terrorists, why don’t they do something about them? Maybe they don’t want to? I don’t know. Why are these human shields not complaining to the UN? Oh, that’s right……it’s a toothless, corrupt organization funded with millions of taxpayer dollars.
If war was fought with feather pillows and double stuff from Oreos, well……no one would get injured.
We as Americans are judged with tainted glasses looking from tainted eyes and double standards that are innumerable. I am ashamed to say a lot of this is FROM “Americans”. Insanity to the power of infinity.
Who has loosed the demoCracken?
Heard this on Neal Boortz show. Thought I’d pass it on:
John J. Wall: Letter From a Law Student
To start with, I didn’t write this. I wish I could be that clever. But it does echo might feelings pretty well. I heard this on The Neal Boortz radio show today and it was too good not to share.
Dear American liberals, leftists, social progressives, socialists, Marxists and Obama supporters, et al:
We have stuck together since the late 1950’s, but the whole of this latest election process has made me realize that I want a divorce. I know we tolerated each other for many years for the sake of future generations, but sadly, this relationship has run its course. Our two ideological sides of America cannot and will not ever agree on what is right so let’s just end it on friendly terms. We can smile and chalk it up to irreconcilable differences and go our own way.
Here is a model separation agreement:
Our two groups can equitably divide up the country by landmass each taking a portion. That will be the difficult part, but I am sure our two sides can come to a friendly agreement. After that, it should be relatively easy! Our respective representatives can effortlessly divide other assets since both sides have such distinct and disparate tastes.
We don’t like redistributive taxes so you can keep them. You are welcome to the liberal judges and the ACLU. Since you hate guns and war, we’ll take our firearms, the cops, the NRA and the military. You can keep Oprah, Michael Moore and Rosie O’Donnell (You are, however, responsible for finding a bio-diesel vehicle big enough to move all three of them).
We’ll keep the capitalism, greedy corporations, pharmaceutical companies, Wal-Mart and Wall Street. You can have your beloved homeless, homeboys, hippies and illegal aliens.
We’ll keep the hot Alaskan hockey moms, greedy CEO’s and rednecks. We’ll keep the Bibles and give you NBC and Hollywood.
You can make nice with Iran and Palestine and we’ll retain the right to invade and hammer places that threaten us. You can have the peaceniks and war protesters. When our allies or our way of life are under assault, we’ll help provide them security.
We’ll keep our Judeo-Christian values.. You are welcome to Islam, Scientology, Humanism and Shirley McClain. You can also have the U.N.. but we will no longer be paying the bill.
We’ll keep the SUVs, pickup trucks and oversized luxury cars. You can take every Subaru station wagon you can find.
You can give everyone healthcare if you can find any practicing doctors. We’ll continue to believe healthcare is a luxury and not a right. We’ll keep The Battle Hymn of the Republic and the National Anthem. I’m sure you’ll be happy to substitute Imagine, I’d Like to Teach the World to Sing, Kum Ba Ya or We Are the World.
We’ll practice trickle down economics and you can give trickle up poverty your best shot. Since it often so offends you, we’ll keep our history, our name and our flag.
Would you agree to this? If so, please pass it along to other like minded liberal and conservative patriots and if you do not agree, just hit delete. In the spirit of friendly parting, I’ll bet you ANWAR which one of us will need whose help in 15 years.
Sincerely, John J. Wall
Law Student and an American
P.S. Also, please take Barbara Streisand & Jane Fonda with you.
Here’s the deal, coming from a 8 year veteran of the U.S. Armed Forces. One, Obama doesn’t know how to fight a war, especially a war on terrorism where you aren’t fighting an enemy on the battlefield. Two, Obama doesn’t have the guts to fight ANY war. Obama is JUST LIKE Jimmy Carter who was termed the “paralysis by analysis” President because he worried too much about appeasing everyone before he made a decision. If I was currently on Active Duty again, my morale would be so low right now having to serve under the command of an inept Commander in Chief. Obama is more worried about pursuing “Gays in the Military” instead of fighting the war on terrorism to win. It is sickening. So in my analysis, Obama has created his own Vietnam. Unfortunately, I have to say it is time to pull out of Afghanistan if Pakistan doesn’t get off it’s ass, along with Obama, and allow U.S. bombers to carpet bomb the Taliban that resides outside of the Pakistani capital. Pakistan and Afghanistan have lived in crud for centuries, so they really can’t take a war on terrorism as seriously as we do because they are nearly numb to it.
1) We are not ever under any circumstances responsible for the lives of civilians in enemy territory. The enemy who declared war on us is responsible for their own countrymen.
2)I am incredulous that these boobs do not realize that Islamists hide in residential areas for the sole purpose of having the cameras rolling when we retaliate. They use kids as human sheilds so we don’t strike and as propaganda when we do. Instead of highlighting that, the State Dept is too busy apologizing that we are defending the free world from savage throat-cutters.
3) The enemy is un-uniformed. How do they count who is a “civilian”?
Well said ASHLEYMATT.
What’s next? A new set of rules to define the terms and limits of engagement? How to kill the enemy without hurting him? How to pump billions into a region to protect their leaders while allowing them to question our moral virtues?
This stuff makes me sick.
Hamid Karzai says we are not performing up to the proper moral standard.
I think that Karzai is engaged in a little CYA with the Islamists in his country. Which (to be honest) is a smart move on his part. Already many of those who have come in contact with Barack Obama’s Holy Temple wound up under the bus, and I doubt that Karzai harbors illusions that he will be any different. Only a fool would go out on a limb based upon a promise made by the Won.
Obama’s strategy in Afghanistan seems to resemble His approach to the economy:
Plan A: Throw money (troops) at the situation with little or no planning in order to generate slobbering headlines in the US.
Plan B: If Plan A fails blame Bush for the situation He “inherited”.
To be sure – Karzai is no prize, and I’ll wager that he believes every word that he said. But if he had an ounce of faith in the goodwill of the Won I believe that he would have put a cork in it. With Barack Obama as C-in-C of the US military and diplomatic efforts it’s best to be ready to bail out at a moment’s notice.
When we have to start asking ” who goes there ? ” we have one hand tied behind our backs. Let’s get the hell out of there now. This is war. War has civilian casualties.
If we instruct our military to be careful and think twice we are putting our women and men in terrible danger. Let’s pull out now before those defending America are killed all in the name of fighting a p/c ‘ be careful ‘ war.
No one in the nanny apologetic government seems to care or want to remember the 3000 civilian casualties that started this whole thing on a certain September morning.